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	<title>Comments on: Viva la Neo-Fisherian Liberation Front!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.imachordata.com/?feed=rss2&#038;p=274" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.imachordata.com/?p=274</link>
	<description>An exploits of a marine ecologist with an inordinate fondness for ascidians</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 13:05:17 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Open Laboratory 2010 &#8211; submissions so far &#124; A Blog Around The Clock</title>
		<link>http://www.imachordata.com/?p=274&#038;cpage=1#comment-4977</link>
		<dc:creator>Open Laboratory 2010 &#8211; submissions so far &#124; A Blog Around The Clock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 13:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.imachordata.com/?p=274#comment-4977</guid>
		<description>[...] I’m a chordata! urochordata!: Viva la Neo-Fisherian Liberation Front! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I’m a chordata! urochordata!: Viva la Neo-Fisherian Liberation Front! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.imachordata.com/?p=274&#038;cpage=1#comment-4914</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 15:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.imachordata.com/?p=274#comment-4914</guid>
		<description>Good as far as it goes, but it presumes the saintly behavior of scientists. Observational studies are particularly problematic. For example, if you want a p-value &lt;0.05, then just ask a lot of questions. For some level of oversight, authors should be required to provide an electronic copy of their data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good as far as it goes, but it presumes the saintly behavior of scientists. Observational studies are particularly problematic. For example, if you want a p-value &lt;0.05, then just ask a lot of questions. For some level of oversight, authors should be required to provide an electronic copy of their data.</p>
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		<title>By: ResearchBlogging.org News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Editor&#8217;s selections: giving climate scientists their due, &#8220;revolting&#8221; statistics, and a crystal controversy</title>
		<link>http://www.imachordata.com/?p=274&#038;cpage=1#comment-4456</link>
		<dc:creator>ResearchBlogging.org News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Editor&#8217;s selections: giving climate scientists their due, &#8220;revolting&#8221; statistics, and a crystal controversy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.imachordata.com/?p=274#comment-4456</guid>
		<description>[...] Viva la Neo-Fisherian Liberation Front! In a &#8220;revolutionary&#8221; post, jebyrnes at I&#8217;m a chordata, urochordata! explains a standard used by scientists in statistical analysis&#8230; and why it should be overthrown! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Viva la Neo-Fisherian Liberation Front! In a &#8220;revolutionary&#8221; post, jebyrnes at I&#8217;m a chordata, urochordata! explains a standard used by scientists in statistical analysis&#8230; and why it should be overthrown! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rise of the neoFisherian statistical paradigm &#171; Jabberwocky Ecology</title>
		<link>http://www.imachordata.com/?p=274&#038;cpage=1#comment-4438</link>
		<dc:creator>Rise of the neoFisherian statistical paradigm &#171; Jabberwocky Ecology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.imachordata.com/?p=274#comment-4438</guid>
		<description>[...] over at i’m a chordata! urochordata! wrote such a great post about it that all I need to do is point you over to his place. Just so you know what you&#8217;re getting into, Hurlbert &amp; Lombardi provide a convincing [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] over at i’m a chordata! urochordata! wrote such a great post about it that all I need to do is point you over to his place. Just so you know what you&#8217;re getting into, Hurlbert &amp; Lombardi provide a convincing [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jebyrnes</title>
		<link>http://www.imachordata.com/?p=274&#038;cpage=1#comment-4431</link>
		<dc:creator>jebyrnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Also, I think the primary goal here is to assume that scientists are not saints.  We&#039;re humans!  Setting an alpha does have a tremendous importance in some cases - quality control, for example.  But for other types of problems, it is not as appropriate.  I think the central point here is that absolutism is rarely a good policy, and each problem requires its own specific approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, I think the primary goal here is to assume that scientists are not saints.  We&#8217;re humans!  Setting an alpha does have a tremendous importance in some cases &#8211; quality control, for example.  But for other types of problems, it is not as appropriate.  I think the central point here is that absolutism is rarely a good policy, and each problem requires its own specific approach.</p>
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		<title>By: jebyrnes</title>
		<link>http://www.imachordata.com/?p=274&#038;cpage=1#comment-4430</link>
		<dc:creator>jebyrnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.imachordata.com/?p=274#comment-4430</guid>
		<description>First off, yes, data sharing is the way to go.  I think meta-analyses help out a lot here.  While some studies find strong evidence, others find week evidence, etc.

With respect to multiple comparisons I&#039;ve always thought about it on a few levels.  First, what is a &#039;family&#039; of tests?  Is it multiple comparisons from one experiment?  What about comparisons from multiple related experiments?  I think this framework might be helpful.

Let me pose an observational example - a researcher goes and tests a correlation between, say, species richness and plant biomass in 50 different fields.  Let&#039;s say they perform 50 correlations, and a researcher has a critical alpha of 0.05.  Now, if each correlation has a p value of around 0.06, except for 1 which is 0.04, what would you conclude under the old versus new framework?  Would it be the same or different if each correlation had a p value of 0.5 except for one which had a correlation of 0.04?  Would you always conclude that something was different about that one field, or not?  What inferences from each set of p values could you draw about that general relationship?  How would those conclusions change if you corrected your alpha for multiple comparisons to 0.001, and would this be more likely to give you a true impression of the correlation between these variables in nature?

(and, yes, I know a multilevel approach is far more appropriate to this particular example, but, for the sake or argument, consider the two examples)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, yes, data sharing is the way to go.  I think meta-analyses help out a lot here.  While some studies find strong evidence, others find week evidence, etc.</p>
<p>With respect to multiple comparisons I&#8217;ve always thought about it on a few levels.  First, what is a &#8216;family&#8217; of tests?  Is it multiple comparisons from one experiment?  What about comparisons from multiple related experiments?  I think this framework might be helpful.</p>
<p>Let me pose an observational example &#8211; a researcher goes and tests a correlation between, say, species richness and plant biomass in 50 different fields.  Let&#8217;s say they perform 50 correlations, and a researcher has a critical alpha of 0.05.  Now, if each correlation has a p value of around 0.06, except for 1 which is 0.04, what would you conclude under the old versus new framework?  Would it be the same or different if each correlation had a p value of 0.5 except for one which had a correlation of 0.04?  Would you always conclude that something was different about that one field, or not?  What inferences from each set of p values could you draw about that general relationship?  How would those conclusions change if you corrected your alpha for multiple comparisons to 0.001, and would this be more likely to give you a true impression of the correlation between these variables in nature?</p>
<p>(and, yes, I know a multilevel approach is far more appropriate to this particular example, but, for the sake or argument, consider the two examples)</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Young</title>
		<link>http://www.imachordata.com/?p=274&#038;cpage=1#comment-4429</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Good as far as it goes, but it presumes the saintly behavior of scientists. Observational studies are particularly problematic. For example, if you want a p-value &lt;0.05, then just ask a lot of questions. For some level of oversight, authors should be required to provide an electronic copy of their data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good as far as it goes, but it presumes the saintly behavior of scientists. Observational studies are particularly problematic. For example, if you want a p-value &lt;0.05, then just ask a lot of questions. For some level of oversight, authors should be required to provide an electronic copy of their data.</p>
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